Isaiah 57:1-2 and the Rapture

Several years ago I blogged on the following passage in Isaiah:

“The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; and devout men are taken away, while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from evil, he enters into peace; they rest in their beds, each one who walked in his upright way.” (Isaiah 57:1-2)

Recently I received an interesting comment on that scripture and my discussion of it.

I think the statement means exactly what it says. The righteous will perish (vanish) and no one will take notice. It is the first rapture. The "Church of Philadelphia, the only church which Christ had no problem with, would not have to suffer the miseries of tribulation, and would become the pillars of heaven, and they would not have to ever leave. The 'righteous' I believe, are the Church of Philadelphia. We are instructed to "pray that we be found worthy to be taken" which I believe refers to all of the above.

I felt that this comment was worthy of a response and have chosen to do so as separate post.

First, I must confess that, while I believe in the Rapture and in the tribulation at the end of the age, I believe that the Rapture will occur at the end of the tribulation and not before; I do not believe in a "pre-trib" rapture. But more on that later.

First, we must understand that there are three different ways, or modes, by which we may interpret scriptures. First, there is the literal and historical interpretation. For example, in this scripture Isaiah describes the events in Israel where the wicked have increased and the people no longer give any attention to righteousness. They are on the brink of becoming a totally godless society, and no one even gives it a thought. Secondly, there can be a proverbial interpretation. This type of interpretation looks for parallels or principles from the literal and historical interpretation that we may take and apply to our lives and our world today. This is what Paul meant when he said, "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (1 Corinthians 10:11) From this scripture in Isaiah we can begin to see the dangers if we allow our nations to forsake God and instead turn to become increasingly more secular in our society and government. Thirdly is an allegorical interpretation. This interpretation looks for signs and figures in the scripture that refer to some hidden or secret truth. For example when Paul wrote, "Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children." (Galatians 4:25) Allegorical interpretations have, at times in the past, been very popular with certain sects within the christian church.

In responding to this verse in Isaiah and the one in Revelations referring to the church at Philadelphia, the questioner is posing an allegorical interpretation to these verses. Along with the questioner, I too believe that they mean exactly what they say, however, what they are exactly saying is still in question. The problem with an allegorical interpretation is knowing which allegorical interpretation is correct. For example, if agreeing with the questioner that perish could also be translated vanish (although I am not sure the Hebrew supports that), we could just as rightly propose an allegorical interpretation that God will make all Christians invisible. Such an interpretation fits the passage as well as supposing that it is referring to a pre-trib rapture. The other problem with allegorical interpretations is deciding if such an interpretation is called for or not. For example, how do we know the message to the church in Philadelphia is meant to have an allegorical interpretation for us today? We certainly can see a literal historical and even a proverbial interpretation, but did Jesus ever intend us to find an allegorical interpretation in His message to the church at Philadelphia?

That being said, should we expect that these two scriptures may be allegorically apply to a pre-trib rapture? Concerning the scripture in Isaiah, it says that the righteous parish and no man takes it to heart. It is hard to imagine that, with the rapture and the taking of millions if not billions of Christians, the world should not notice nor take it to heart; even if it is only to increase in their anger and rage towards God, for this rapture will not be done in secret, but openly as Paul says, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16) Also, concerning the scripture in Revelations, if the qualification for the Philadelphia church to escape the hour of testing was that God had nothing to correct them about, then if this same reasoning is to be applied to the churches that are to escape the tribulation, then which churches are to escape? Since it seems to me that presently there are few if any churches that would have nothing for which Christ could not correct them for. Even if we are to say that the church of Philadelphia is to be allegorically applied to the church universal in the day of the rapture then why should we expect that we are the church of Philadelphia and not one of the other seven churches, say Laodicea, except for our desire to escape tribulation.

In whole, I do not believe in a pre-tribpre-trib rapture.

Thanks again for your comment, David Robison

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Should I forgive God?

Increasingly, I have been hearing teachings that we should not only forgive each other but we should also forgive God. Many of those teaching such doctrine have come to realize that there are many people who are angry with God and have blamed God for difficult situations in their lives. For many of these people, their anger and judgment towards God has bound them and hindered them from progressing in their relationship with God and into the things of God. They teach that by forgiving God we can be set free from the bondages caused by our anger and judgment towards God. However, the scriptures never teach, demonstrate, nor imply that we need to, or that we should, forgive God. So do we need to forgive God? Is forgiveness of God the correct remedy for our anger and judgments towards God? To properly answer these questions we first need to understand the nature of forgiveness.

When Jesus sought to teach the disciples about forgiveness, He told a parable about a man who owed a king a large sum of money.

"For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made." (Matthew 18:23-25)

The sum owed was more than the man could ever expect to repay, yet he begged and pleaded with the king. "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.'" (Matthew 18:26) The king was moved my the man's supplications and, rather than giving the man more time to replay his debt, he released him from the entire debt; he forgave him the debt. "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt." (Matthew 18:27)

In teaching on forgiveness, Jesus chose to define forgiveness in financial terms; the forgiveness of a debt owed. Even today, if a financial institution cancels a debt you own, they refer to it as the forgiveness of the debt. When we sin, we own God a debt. "For the wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23) Jesus paid our debt by His substitutionary death on the cross, thus making the way for us to be forgiven of our debt. "When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Colossians 2:13-14)

Forgiveness is the canceling of a debt. If a debt is not owed, then there is nothing to forgive. When considering the question of forgiving God, we must recognize that there is nothing that God needs to be forgiven of; God has never sinned, therefor He does not need to be forgiven.

"For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light , and in Him there is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

So, if God does not need to be forgiven, then how are people who are trapped by their anger and judgments towards God supposed to get free? Their freedom is not to be found in them forgiving God, but rather in being forgiven by Him. God is not the one who needs to be forgiven, we are! We are the one who was angry unjustly towards God and who judged Him without a cause. We need to ask God to forgive us for judging Him and harboring anger towards Him. It is only by repenting and experiencing His forgiveness for us that we will be able to be free from our own anger and judgments towards Him. Freedom is found in His forgiveness towards us, not our forgiveness of Him.

"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)

David Robison


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What is the benefit of speaking in tongues?

Samantha wrote,

Amen, amen, amen. I have some friends who are obsessed with speaking in tongues. I guess I don't understand why, since they claim they don't even know what they are saying? So who does it benefit? Is the gospel being preached? Are souls being saved? Not on account of them speaking in tongues. It's not that it's not a beautiful gift. In the early church it had great benefit!! But today, does it edify the church, or bring people to Christ? Not that I've seen...

While I would agree that there have been excesses and abuses when it comes to spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues, I would disagree that they have little value or benefit today. I think that the gift of tongues is just as important, and as beneficial to the church, today as it was in the early church. To understand its importance and benefit, however, it is important to first understand its purpose. Consider what Paul had to say to the Corinthian church regarding the gift of tongues.

“Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.” (1 Corinthians 14:1-5)

The key point to understand is that tongues, unless given and interpreted publicly, is intended for personal edification. When we speak in tongues, our spirit speaks mysteries to God, and in the process, we are built up. When we speak in tongues, we allow our spirit to communicate with God without having to first filter everything through our intellect. There are times when, in prayer or worship, we are unable to find the words to express our hearts and our love to God. In these times, we can express our innermost feelings and prayers through the gift of tongues. I believe this is what Paul meant when he said, “In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.” (Romans 8:26) I can testify that many times, when I did not know what or how to pray, that by praying in the Spirit and I knew that God understood me and I believed that He would answer my prayers.

Another personal benefit of speaking in tongues is that it builds us up in faith. Jude said, “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit.” (Jude 20) I believe that there is a link between building up ourselves in faith and praying in tongues. I can attest that, when I pray regularly in the Spirit, my faith is increased and I find it easier to trust in God.

There is also one case where public speaking in tongues, without interpretation, is of benefit. Paul wrote, “In the Law it is written, ‘By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to me,’ says the Lord. So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.” (1 Corinthians 14:21-22) The word translated here as “unbelievers” is different from the word used in the following verses. This word refers to those who refuse to believe. They are more than unbelievers they are unbelieving. To them, the gift of tongues is meant as a sign of the miraculous working of God which they themselves have rejected. It is meant to demonstrate to them that God is moving and He has passed them by because they have chosen unbelief.

So, how should we approach the subject of speaking in tongues? I think that we should follow the example of the Apostle Paul. “What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.” (1 Corinthians 14:15) I think if we do this, we will do well.

David Robison

Do you believe that before God created the universe and mankind, did he already know every person who would be born and which persons would end up in

Jack Harney writes in response to previous post,

I asked a question about one of the most basic beliefs that all Christians claim, that God is omniscient...all knowing the past present and future. Let me ask you this. Do you believe that before God created the universe and mankind, did he already know every person who would be born and which persons would end up in heaven and hell? Do you believe that he knew that before creation?

This is a very interesting question and one that has occupied theologians for many millennia. I in no way claim to be a learned theologian, but I will give my opinion on this question. The fact that God knows the future is evident throughout the scriptures. The scriptures record hundreds of prophesies, many which have already come to pass. In fact, by some accountings, over 300 specific prophesies of the messiah’s birth, life, and death were fulfilled in the person of Jesus. God declares of Himself

“Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.’” (Isaiah 46:9-10)

It is also apparent from the scriptures that God “knew” us before we were born. Our existence is not the result of random chance but the result of the determined plan and will of God. Consider what was written of both Jeremiah and David.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

“Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.” (Psalms 139:16)

While God’s omniscience and His foreknowledge of us are abundantly attested to by the scriptures, the more difficult question relates to the concept of “free will”. Does man have a “free will” to chose to accept or reject the saving grace offered by God or is it God alone who chooses who will be save and we are powerless to change that decision? My understanding to this question is that, while God knows the end from the beginning, God does not dictate the end from the beginning. In other words, God is able to look forward and see the result of the decisions we will make by our own free will. We decide the direction of our life by the choices we make and God is able to see those choices, and their results, even before we were born. Consider what God says about the wicked.

“The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth.” (Psalms 58:3)

Notice that He says that the wicked go “astray”. God created us with a purpose and a calling but it is up to us whether we will choose to walk in that purpose and calling. We can choose to go astray or we can choose to walk in the path God has prepared for us. Standing from a place outside of time, God sees it all, but we live in time and must walk through our lives and face our choices one at a time. In this way, God is both omniscient and man still has “free will”.

“Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.” (John 14:29)

Let’s continue the dialog, David Robison

The bible says that the dead are conscious of nothing at all, so then can you torment some one in a burning hell forever, if they are unconscious?

From time to time I receive questions regarding the Bible from some of my readers. Instead of trying to answer each one individually, I thought that I would try to deal with some of them on my blog. Show here is the first one…

tperrymandias writes: The bible says that the dead are conscious of nothing at all, so then can you torment some one in a burning hell forever, if they are unconscious? “For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Personally, I do not believe that this scripture is meant to teach us that, once we die, we are unconscious of everything around us. This is certainly not what Jesus believed. In His teaching on Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus describes the condition of both men as the entered into Hades after their death.

“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.’” (Luke 16:22-25)

In this account, both men are very aware of their surroundings and are able to communicate, feel pain, and express emotions. Peter also reminds us that,

“Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah , during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.” (1 Peter 3:18-20)

During the three days following Jesus’ death, He descended into Hades and preached the Gospel to those who had died before. Even the dead were given a chance to receive the Gospel. Three days later, when He rose from the dead, He took with Him those who believed. This is why many who had died were seen alive after Jesus’ resurrection. “The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.” (Matthew 27:52-53) I think this is what Paul meant when he said of Jesus, “He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.” (Ephesians 4:8) I believe that the captives He is talking about are those who had died and were being held in Hades. Either way, how could Jesus preach to those who where unconscious?

I believe that what King Solomon was trying to say is that the dead are unaware of what is happening among the land of the living. I honestly do not believe that my dead grandmother is in heaven looking after me. She is in heaven, but she is totally consumed with Jesus. There is, however, one who is watching out for me and that is Jesus.

I hope this helps.
David Robison